| Transcript: Christine Garvin 0:02
Hey everyone, welcome to this week’s episode of hormonally speaking. Today we’re talking about something that, you know I like to talk about because it’s such a huge aspect of our hormone health. And yet it is overlooked or maybe kind of pushed to the side when we talk about hormones. Everyone wants to jump on to estrogen and progesterone. But before we get there, there’s all kinds of things that are impacting other hormones like insulin and cortisol, our stress hormone. So today’s guest is going to be talking about anxiety and stress and how this impacts your body in multiple ways that we haven’t even covered on the podcast before, so I’m super excited to talk about it today. My guest is Rachel McLeod, who is a mental health therapist and emotional wellness coach. Through years of successfully helping clients move their anxiety, depression and trauma disorders into remission, she’s developed a program that empowers people to skillfully get rid of symptoms and heal. She’s also the facilitator of the Facebook group, releasing the baggage of anxiety, depression and traumatic stress, where she delivers free training on leading interventions that work well for getting rid of symptoms, not just coping, or managing them. Her mission is to empower people to do their healing work effectively, safely and skillfully. You can find out more at her website, Rachel mcleod.com. Welcome. Rachel McCloud 1:25
Thank you for having me. Christine Garvin 1:27
Oh, I’m so glad that you’re here. I, as I mentioned, I love this topic, and I love getting different views of it. And I think it’s you know, even what was just said in your bio, you’re not trying to just teach people how to Cove that actually how to heal it. Right. So let’s, let’s start with maybe, you know, breaking down just kind of the basis, the basics of anxiety, how the body handles it, how the brain handles it, for people that don’t know, Rachel McCloud 1:55
yeah, I, gosh, I love this topic. I don’t enjoy anxiety at all. But it’s really fascinating how, you know, if you think about our body, as a sensing Oregon, it’s like receiving all this information from outside of us and within us. And then it sends all the information up to the front of the brain to make sense of our world and given words and understanding and insights, and all these things that are very necessary for us to create accurate maps of the world, accurate reactions, accurate responses, and then really to put our best self forward into it. So that’s really how it’s designed to work. However, all the positive emotions just flow through this process, it flows through the mind body connection, it’s the flows through up the brainstem, past the survival system and up to the front of the brain, because there’s no threat involved. And then you have all these other emotions that are in that emotion, that’s, that is vital to understanding the world, but they are not as positive they are in the brain is pain, social pain, emotional pain, mental pain, and relational pain. And that stuff registers it alerts the pain neurons in the brain. And then that it starts ringing those, right, the little alarms ring, and then that starts triggering the survival system to interpret that we’re under attack, we’re thinking we’re in danger. And so all of a sudden, we shift out of a processing state and into a survival state. And that is that survival state is where we will have that amped up adrenaline, all those things. And we will experience that fight or flight, freeze, fight or fine. Christine Garvin 3:35
All the additional apps that haven’t been talked about for a long time, right? Rachel McCloud 3:39
And when we’re there, it’s not that’s not a choice center, when that survival system takes over, we don’t get choices. And then we’re like, why am I behaving like this? Why can I control any of this? You’re not supposed to? Right? It’s right under an automatic program for our survival that has done a pretty good job keeping us alive for you know, 1000s and 10s and 1000s of years, right? And so it’s designed to work like this, but a lot of times it’s not. It’s not it’s no longer accurate, right? We’re no longer being chased by lions and tigers and, and being you know, hurting somebody’s feelings doesn’t mean you’re gonna get kicked out of the tribe anymore, you know, you’re gonna be left to fend for yourself. And there’s just different pieces here where we don’t need to be under survival states, like we are. So but the system so when when that pain starts moving, we’re likely to go into a survival state, but the system is also designed that if you can get sent the messages to the survival system that hey, we’re safe. Okay, the survival system will join back in in the mind and it will go back into a whole brain state and really process the energy that’s moving. Pain energy gets to be converted and actually the brain will take out the pain and really convert that into amazing things like hope and courage and joy, like pain is not supposed to email motional pain once it gets past that those pain neurons, it’s it really gets converted into beautiful things. And so, but also it’s information, all of a sudden, we have all this information about what’s going on in the world outside of us what’s going on inside of us. We’re getting accurate data, we’re getting the light in the dark, we’re getting the good and the bad, we’re getting all of the pieces. And that way we can come together and create something very accurate. So we’re helping the brain really understand what’s going on here. And so there’s just beautiful opportunity in here. But a lot of us have lost the art of bringing this survival system back together. Right? Right. So here, it’s out there to the left, creating all these symptoms for us, just very quickly bring it back. But the survival system is much different than the front of our brain, which you know, that’s the native language, there’s talking and explaining and understanding and venting, and all these things. But just because we do those things does not mean our survival system has agreed to come back to the party right now. Christine Garvin 6:01
Right, he’s still like hanging out at the door being like, okay, we’re not gonna let you in. Yeah. Rachel McCloud 6:07
And so really, when we, when we can shift this and start really addressing that in the native language of the Survival Systems, the body, its whole job is to keep the body alive. So all of a sudden, if we start doing the things we did with babies, like rocking, sucking our thumb, we don’t want to do that as adults in public, but many of us still have some of these coping strategies because they actually work, they are targeted to that part of the brain, and right brain evolves. So you know, now we’re using interventions like EMDR thought field therapy, we’re using some tapping and radian interventions, we’re using all these Mind Body things, not to mention some of the some of the chemical stuff and the hormone stuff to really start talking to that survival system to get it to cool out and join the party. Party. And, and so, gosh, I don’t think I’ve said so many things. Ultimately, what’s really great here is that when our system has learned to, to create anxiety, and we can provide IT support to, hey, let’s do something different, all of a sudden, it really shifts and it changed and those symptoms stop. And then the whole brain comes together and say, Hey, why were we doing that in the first place? Let’s let’s do something better. And they kind of get together up there. And then they write new codes and the next thing you know, that spider that may have made you freak out no longer does that look that someone gave you that says you’re in trouble no longer is bothering you. Right that look that your that your husband pulling away for a night because he’s stressed out no longer is causing you like to melt down and like I’m being abandoned, right? Yeah. Now all of a sudden, we’re just accurately understanding there’s there’s some good and bad here. Let’s work through it. And we’re becoming more whole. Christine Garvin 7:52
Yeah. So do you think that you have to go through processing old trauma in order for that to happen? Or are there ways to not have to necessarily figure out where you know, the trauma might be the anxiety might be connected to the trauma? Does that make sense? Yeah. Rachel McCloud 8:13
I think I hear you saying this. Do we have to go back and talk about the trauma? Christine Garvin 8:19
Right? Or even even know the trauma? I guess, you know, because sometimes there’s traumas that we don’t necessarily know, right? Rachel McCloud 8:26
I’d say No, unless, unless you need to. It’s like, it’s more I look at this as like what I help the brain do the healing work it needs to do. It does not need to talk through things to heal things, right does not need to understand things to heal things because the mind and body are always trying to heal. That’s actually what a lot of symptoms of anxiety, depression and traumatic stress are. It’s the the mind body system trying to heal and it’s not completing the process that survived. And nope, we are out if it doesn’t, and that has had that can override the healing pathways in a second. So all of a sudden here, you know, so. So I find that people do need to go back and resolve traumas. But it doesn’t it’s like a 20 minute process. Right? The mind body connection is that’s an electrical process that all of a sudden, if the survival system comes together with it, it happens quickly. So we can process some really painful memories so fast. That where the brain learned tons of incorrect beliefs about ourselves, that our subconscious mind has stored all sorts of brain trash. Yeah, ultimately, yeah, for misunderstandings or things that thought it was important, but it was not anything that worked for other people that they projected onto us and we took them in to mean something about ourselves. We can go back to those moments and then the brain can the subconscious mind can run that stuff through the healing pathways and really solve problems because our body is not a problem solving. Oregon, emotionally Right, mind can’t solve problems, they have to move this stuff to the parts of the brain that can solve. And so that process has to complete. Yeah, that makes sense. Get health and wellness without completing. Just like when we make hormones right back in, in the chemical world, it’s like we have to make the hormones then we have to use them. We have to break them down, and then we have to release them. Yep, get them out. Otherwise problems happen. It’s the same thing with events that have happened in our life. If we don’t complete the process for them, we will have problems. That makes sense, see old anxieties showing up and we’re like, what’s up with this? Well, that’s old stuff that hasn’t made it through yet. So right, just help it complete, because it’s here now. And it’s trying to make its way through. So let’s just finish that. Christine Garvin 10:42
Yeah. So what are some of your favorite approaches? I know you mentioned EMDR. Before and are what is your, I guess process with helping these complete? Rachel McCloud 10:51
Yeah, I really use the eye. was gonna say it very complicated. Over here, it’s all good. Yeah. Don’t do that. Yeah, no problem. I these interventions, I really target the survival system, because that’s the part of the brain that will determine whether something will complete or never complete, right. And so so really any intervention that will help the survival system receive the message that it’s safe to let this stuff through. And then it actually responds by joining the team and resolves, that’s what I’m going to use. And so my favorite interventions for that are I like this one called collarbone breathing. It’s part of therapy, which is the original tapping intervention. But the first intervention I love to teach people is EFT, EFT techniques and tap, it’s so easy. There’s no negative side effects. Yes. You can do it wrong. And you still get great results, Christine Garvin 11:46
right? Absolutely. No, Rachel McCloud 11:48
you’re right. Yeah. And your survival. Most Survival Systems I like, yes, let’s do this. I hear you. I’m responding. We’re safe. Let’s go. And so I love that one. I do also use EMDR. I’m really starting to use passive EMDR approaches. And I’m really starting to train clients on that and see how that impacts the whole process. My process is designed to help people resolve disorders in two to six months. two to six years. Yeah, the right path. That’s not the right timing for everyone. But should I really, you know, I like I will move as fast as a brain is ready to move. Yeah, they can, they can resolve things really quickly. So I’ve been really adding that in, especially with my clients with complex PTSD, which is where I’ll have them listen to EMDR music or where some tactile buzzy, like some tactile, bilateral alternating stimulation during the day, and just help keep their brain in a whole brain state. And so I like to match people with the right intervention for their system. That makes sense. Yeah. When I’m working with it, I have an online self study program. And I so I teach four strategies for interventions there and have them play with it. Christine Garvin 13:03
In figuring out which one works best for them. Yeah, Rachel McCloud 13:06
and so and then they can kind of get a before and after the intervention, which interventions are like 30 seconds or two minutes, right. And so when they can see how their brain is able to resolve issues or stressors, just in a very short time, and if they get any resolution, then that means that their survival system is listening, yes, paying attention as responding and so that’s when they keep in their toolbox and then they can go do and then I teach exercises and things like that, that is like okay, take your tool and help your brain resolve this issue. Yeah, you can do it like this. And so I show how to do that and then set people to work on that but when I’m working with people I will have will start with EFT techniques. And we’ll pick a stressor and try it out if it reduces the intensity of the anxiety or the maybe the stomach ache or ache or you know any symptoms that can come up the body has and any of that then that becomes their their intervention, one of theirs. Yeah. And so if it doesn’t do anything great, now we read the next one. And so I like that. Yeah, I love the collarbone breathing next and if that one doesn’t work, just keep going. But I really between tapping EFT and collarbone breathing that covers 100% of my clients. They either love one or the other. And then any of the other ones are just add on. Christine Garvin 14:28
Good. Gotcha. Yeah, it’s funny. I was taught EFT for the first time I think in my 20s. And it was interesting because in the beginning, I was pretty resistant to it. I was just like, in one hour, you know, and then it kind of over time, I noticed that helping more now it really really helps me. You know, like I had a really stressful week last week and I mean, I was just tapping like crazy because it was the only thing that was just leveling me out. You know, and I love that tool and I teach it in my program too because It’s it is. So you can do it on your own, you can really you can’t do it wrong, as you mentioned, I feel for me, a lot of times I’ll start tapping, and the stuff that’s underneath will just come up and out, right. I’m like, I start with sort of what’s at the forefront, you know, of what I’m experiencing. But then it’ll be amazing, like, something will come up from childhood or whatever, just the it’s like the peeling of the layers, you know? Yeah. And I think that it’s so powerful. Yeah. Rachel McCloud 15:29
And you can see that that right now we’re having experience, but it’s like, there’s richer, there’s richer reasons why, yep. Like, this is like, our brain is not just choosing crappy strategies. No, it really thinks this is how it’s supposed to be done. And it’ll tell you exactly. Well, I think so. Because remember when this happened, and like you said, we don’t have to get into the story to help the system heal. But sometimes it really, you know, when I’m, when I’m working with a disorder, I’m not just looking at getting rid of symptoms, I’m looking at also creating function. There’s some things that we have not been able to functions we haven’t been able to create yet. Like, for instance, if we had a parent with mental illness, we a lot of children learn how to pay very good attention to the parent, but not themselves. Yeah. So their internal wiring goes first to the parent and, you know, bypassing itself well, we need to restore the function of the self becoming involved in this process and life becoming about you, and you mattering, and your self being the driver of your life. And so when we’re using tapping and stuff like that, sometimes it’s really good to know the story. Because you, you’re learning about yourself, you’re gathering information about yourself, you’re seeing that your brain is not just being in an eighth hole. Christine Garvin 16:41
You can say it, that’s why we call it what it is here. Rachel McCloud 16:48
But it’s like there’s a real issue. And it’s actually trying to help. Yeah, and then you say, Honey, that is just not helping us, you know, and then all of a sudden, your brain is able to it’s like you when you’re working, like if you took your car to the mechanic, and they’re like, oh, yeah, I think it’s this from the outside, they wouldn’t be able to fix it, right? But you need to get under there, you need to look at this, you need to get in, get close to it, look at it. And then the mechanics like, Oh, I know what’s up. And a lot of times with with tapping, it’s like, you know, your or any of these interventions, you’re helping the brain get close like that. That pain that covers that issue, keeps the brain out of it. Like every time it’s touched, the survival system takes you out and goes into a different. And so your other part of your brain is like, oh, we need that information. Yeah, you know, we need in there and it can’t get in there because the pain and so you’re tapping in, and the tapping is helping the brain process that pain. And so it’s taking it out. And so you’re healing team can touch more of the problem. And all of a sudden, you’re getting, you know, it’s like using that screwdriver, and you’re getting that wet piece out of the way and this piece out of the way. And then it’s like all sudden you’re looking at this foam and you’re like, oh, and then you’re tapping they’re looking at this problem for maybe 30 seconds. And then you notice, oh, and then new ideas, epiphanies, healings, like, it’s just so beautiful. Yeah, I love people to have those moments because it’s how it’s how the self begins to trust the self again, learns to see the self again, and that it’s safe to see the self and hey, there’s something good behind that pain, and then we stop becoming so afraid of the pain anymore, then we start to get curious, and then we start to get well, what if I could move that pain? What would I get then? Yeah, you know, and it’s like, you know, personally, I’m at a point in my I have a childhood history of complex trauma that having I was Christine Garvin 18:29
I was gonna ask, yeah, like, we go on the path that we’re doing the healing of ourselves first. Yeah, Rachel McCloud 18:36
I come from a family of generational trauma. And so I’ve really, I didn’t build this to build a curriculum for anybody else. I needed it. Yeah. And so but and I’ve been working this journey for a long time and and, and helping other people but I’ll tell you what, I don’t enjoy being deeply triggered. And every once in a while, I am sure I am like triggered heart. Yeah. And something will happen especially in intimate related like, intimate my husband, like he’ll say something and boom, yep. I feel all the things and feel too many things. And then like, interesting, something’s happening here. And I’ll tap with that, or would use whichever intervention I want to at the time. Yep. And. And gosh, I just I just felt like I’m getting the gift of myself back. Like there’s some part of me that was in so much excruciating pain that I could not find, see or touch and now all of a sudden, she is no longer in pain and like, there’s this whole reunion. I am and I did not get in this to do like internal parts work or internal child healing. You know, I and now here I am. Christine Garvin 19:47
The child always comes in at some point, right? What are you gonna do there and they’re like, please just love me. Rachel McCloud 19:54
Love me talk about and the antidote for self hatred is like, get your system to just versus that. And then all of a sudden, it’s like, that self hatred becomes gets converted into this just information and understanding and compassion and self love, really. And then it’s like, you just get to look at yourself with these new eyes. So yeah, Christine Garvin 20:15
yeah, no, I think it’s, it’s, you put it in such a beautiful way. Right. And I think a lot of women listening to this, you know, are struggling, I see at least a lot of women that are struggling on a lot of levels. Obviously, they come to me mostly for hormone support or gut support. But, you know, trauma underlies so many of our physical issues, right? I mean, there’s, I’ve seen it again, and again, they do, you know, they eat the right way they take the right supplements, they do the movement, all of that, and things aren’t getting better, because we have this trauma hanging out. So running the show, you know, and so, it this is why like to focus in on this area, and to normalize it for everyone that we all have trauma, like there’s just no way around it. Right. You know, I mean, we have, you know, I’m sure you’ve heard this term before, but you know, the big T traumas, and then the little T traumas, but the little T traumas can be just as impactful on our health, as those big T traumas, you know, so and things that you don’t even know from your childhood that happened. And so I love EFT in particular, and I’m so loving that you teach other things that people can do on their own, because that’s the thing is hitting that moment, right? Like you just said, when you got triggered, immediately, you’re able to have this tool that is going to literally not only help you process it, but it’s going to calm down. Your your cortisol is gonna you know, it’s gonna probably, yes, yes, crazy. Yes, exactly. Because that is such, you know, once we get those hormones going sometimes, like, if, unless we get in there, they’re gonna be going. And you know, the thing about trauma and cortisol is that if you have this trauma you haven’t dealt with it can keep your cortisol high all the time, right? Yes. And we don’t want that. Rachel McCloud 22:12
Such unconscious levels. Yes. The brains are only gonna be conscious of stuff for so long. And then it’s like, you know, Christine Garvin 22:18
this is here. Yep. Let’s, let’s turn about Yeah. Rachel McCloud 22:21
And that’s part of how we survived. But that doesn’t mean it’s not running through your nervous system continually. Right now, as somebody who didn’t, I did an intervention one time, I teach this one for dissociation now. And I was 40. So four years ago, and I’m moving my eyes, I’m finished, I’m blue in the other ways. And I like while I’m looking back, I see this woman’s fingertips so close. And I’m like, I don’t think I have ever been this present ever. In my entire life. And as a as a therapist, right? I’m like, this proves that we can be in in some level of dissociated state. And then I’m like, How does this happen? And you mean to tell me yes. Yes, you might be you, your life might get better, more like, by just processing some trauma like that. That I’ve had some times where I’ve, I’ve, I like to walk with compulsions when you can find them and walk with them and use these interventions. And all of a sudden, the brain finally can get a good enough look at it to say, Hey, what is this doing here? And I’m like, Yeah, I know. Right? So we’re here, and then it processes it. And then there’s this quiet inside. My that’s what my clients are saying. They’re like, I don’t know what to do this silence. Christine Garvin 23:47
They’re like, I’ve never experienced this before in my life, right? Rachel McCloud 23:50
Like clients is like, there’s a nice voice in my head. Christine Garvin 23:53
Where did that come from? Yes, to be there. Ya know, that Rachel McCloud 23:55
inner criticism? Is this kind of wounding? Christine Garvin 23:58
Yeah. Do you are a lot of your clients coming to you with? Do they feel like it’s anxiety from work mostly, or anxiety from families? Or is it I guess I’m wondering if a lot of people come in with the idea of anxiety from something sort of happening in their life right now. versus it being old things that aren’t processed. Rachel McCloud 24:19
I get a wide variety. I get people that have been working on their childhood trauma for decades. And they’ve been talking it out and they’ve been like, it’s just I need to make enough talk. I’m like, Christine Garvin 24:33
right? It’s just like, the hamster wheel is we’re done. Rachel McCloud 24:38
zip through that. Yeah. I have clients who just they’re like, I don’t know. I don’t know. I just have problems. And it’s like, Okay, let’s go. And so and they’re like, this is anxiety. Yep. This is anxiety. When this happens when you’re feeling this sense, that sounds like it’s dissociation or Yeah, like we’re giving names to this blur and buzz of static Yeah, almost Yeah. Or swirling. Yeah. It’s like no, this is this symptom This is and then we’re just we’re helping the brain resolve them one at a time, right? So that it’s not just a big blur of things. Yep. And then I’ll have clients that come because they just need the panic or whatever to stop now. And so that some of them so that is, so we’ll do that work. A lot of times, they’re surprised to find that their childhood that they thought was good. Is the culprit, which I hear them like, I feel like that was me. Like, I’m, like, we put on some pretty big mental filters. Yeah, yeah. To survive. Yep. i And so sometimes there’s, I have people that have great backgrounds that just have, you know, some stuff that their brain wasn’t able to process, which is normal. Not at all, there’s a lot of energies to run a lot. There’s self hatred, there’s jealousy, there’s, like you as humans, we gotta be good at all of these and some in our family systems. Like, we’re not good at anger, like you can have all the emotions but not anger, well, that’s gonna cause some problems. Right? Right. Right? Well, we’ll get in there and get their brain good at doing the anger. And then we’ll get in there and back to the backlog of anger work. And out, they’re running, they’re, they’re moving forward. It’s really the people that have that come with presenting symptoms that want to resolve we do that. But then if they have histories of childhood trauma, there’s, these are happening because there’s, there’s usually several systems that have never been built. Know where these babies we come in here with all the wiring, but our parents are supposed to wire that for us. Christine Garvin 26:34
And then because they’re not, they’ve got their own stuff. That Rachel McCloud 26:38
never happened for them, they won’t know how to do it for us, right? So we come into adulthood with us undone work on materials, there just has to be wired, it just has, the brain has to get a chance to fire it and wire it. So that’s some of the work that we do. And so it’s like, yes, we’re gonna resolve symptoms, and we’re, and so I kind of layer them together, because people only have so much stamina. They’re like, yes, we want to hit this and quit this. Right? Yeah. Several separate layers. Yep. It’s like, let’s put them all together, make it stop and also get the building going on. So yeah, Christine Garvin 27:11
absolutely. But as you were talking, I was thinking about, you know, my first experience with therapy was in my 20s. And it was talk therapy. And that was actually the first time that I even recognized I had anxiety, right? Like, I literally just thought that this is just the way that that yes, everybody, but uh, you know, nothing even thought about are other people living this way. But I was just like, this is just in my brain doing this all the time, you know. And so it was such an interesting experience. And I appreciate now, I mean, this was 20 years ago, at this point, that other forms of therapy have really evolved to work more with the body, and the energy systems and things like that to get at stuff more quickly. Because while I appreciate everything I learned and talk therapy for like, five years, or whatever, my 20s There was still so much to actually truly, like you said, like, you know, sort of bring all together and process it, you know, it just it just was more of that that hamster wheel. So, Rachel McCloud 28:11
yeah, I find that it’s like, you know, let’s, let’s get it fixed first. Yeah. And then we have fun, it’s like past history kind of thing. Interesting. Like, let’s not sit and just talk talk talk and then use an intervention or then bring the mind and body together then bring the Scrabble system back in. Like, let’s do that priest first. And because then it won’t be painful. It’ll you know, there’s our there’s a beautiful insight. So it’s like, we’re kind of looking through Wow, and this is why I did this and this and this. It’s like we’re watching the brain make all these new connections it’s never been able to make I just, I felt like I really hope that we get this growing more because the science is behind this. Yeah. And I would like to see this the neurological the neuro psychological pieces happen first, helping the mind bonding, connection, connect, feel and get strong. Like, we have to have systems that can process fear. Yeah, right. But the more we if we if we’re experiencing fear and our survival systems jumping out, we’re practicing going into survival state with this fear energy, right? And then we’re reinforcing that and it’s getting big and then it’s you know, and then we don’t have that ability. So it’s like if we can have successful process, a successful practice with fear is coming in and it’s moving through the pathways like it’s supposed to, it’s practicing that it’s doing that and brains are supposed to be doing this without our needing to help it so much. Right? Right happening in the back. You know, those types of things but so I’d really like to see us do the repair work and and like do the hardware work first and then do the talk therapy. And I think that will liberate talk therapists to do their skills well, and really be working with brains that function. I mean, you can look at that brain of someone else. granting anxiety and the brain of someone in a calm state, and they’re totally different. Yeah, absolutely. And so it’s like, that’s really what talk therapy is for. It’s like that. When you’re your whole brain is together and your prefrontal cortex, your thinking center can think and be rational, and explore different options. It can’t fight energy with the survival system, every part of us is going to lose the battle with fighting for energy with the survival system. Right? That’s right. We’re designed and then I, you know, and then when we lose that battle, we think something’s wrong with us. We’re not strong enough. No, you can’t. Right. Biologically designed not to work like that. Christine Garvin 30:35
Right? You’re like, if I said, y’all, I mean, come on. Rachel McCloud 30:40
It’s not about how weak you are how we will write this is brain function. Right. Right. And I think that the more we’re working with brain function, the better our results are going to be. Yeah, unless we’re gonna feel like we’re up a failing losing battle. We’re not we’re again, we need to shift Christine Garvin 30:55
our strategies. Oh, yeah. And I’ve never even thought about how, yeah, how cool that approach is to get the hard wiring in and then talk, right, that you can understand yourself more deeply and appreciate everything that you’ve been through, if you’re not in that painful state going back over it. Yeah. Right. And, you know, Rachel McCloud 31:14
because you know, when people do shift with because people want specialists, right, I don’t do marriage therapy, right, I could blow your marriage up. I’m not trying to tell what I’m here for that and it’s like, and they can go in that space, they’re there assist, they know how to work with their system comes up, right? They can say, Hold on, I need a moment. They can use these interventions there. But they’re just ready. They’re there. They’re just in a space of ready to absorb and learn. Yeah, that’s beautiful. We know with kids in school, you can’t learn and be into trauma state at the same time, right? thing, right, right now. So we want to learn how to do our relationships better, and our marriage is better, but we don’t we’re not in a regulated state, we’re not in that function. Christine Garvin 31:58
Right. And you just bring up kids, I just had this, you know, thought to about how I’m sure a lot of these systems can work much better with kids than the talk therapy approach, right. And unfortunately, we live in a time in history where kids are going through a lot, you know, even just going to school and the fears around being in school, much less social media and all these other things. And so being able to do these types of things with them, and really get in at that early age. And how powerful is that? Rachel McCloud 32:30
Well, let me tell you how powerful it is really, it’s really amazing. Yeah, is children. They’re, they’re just you get to help their system process this, these big emotions so quickly. And you’re you can provide support to that, you know, rocking is good for that. But you know, the kids get older and they don’t want you to rock them anymore. Yeah, but why? Like, they’ll just be babies that we’re working with their survival system. Right? Right, right. But now it’s like, we have a different way to do that. So we can be tapping on them while we’re doing this. Or they can be holding the buzzies or, and all of a sudden, they just shift through it. And they’re just growing and learning. And they’re getting, they’re learning how to work with this fear. And so I will have clients come to me, and they they come because they need like, I need solutions for my kid. And usually, children have matching disorders to their parents, right? Because I’m here it has wired the child and the parents will wire the child the way there’s our plus mirroring neurons in the brain, right? Children are practicing our emotional states. They’re mapping our emotional states. And so it’s just a fact. So I’m all about like, you know, let’s get your system running. Well, we’ll Osmos that. Christine Garvin 33:34
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, they’re just soaking up everything. Yeah, seen Rachel McCloud 33:38
that onto them through the way that children are created to learn aloneness through. And so but the other piece is that sometimes my parent, my clients can’t concentrate because their kid can’t fall asleep, because we’re so anxious or they’re having panic attacks. So then we’re using these strategies with their their I’m equipping them to learn how to work with their kid, all of a sudden, their kids thinking through the night, and the camera just works. And then the kids aren’t having panic attacks. And the kids are this and that. And now there’s room for mom to do her work. Yeah, yeah, there’s room for dad to do his work. And they’re now they’re going in and doing it. But what I find even when I’m working with teenagers is that they haven’t had as many decades to make their anxiety, depression or trauma disorder as complicated and great as we have. Right. So it’s like, you know, we do a little bit of work and it’s like, those things just really crumbled. Yeah, yeah. No matter how I’ve had children that I’ve worked with teenagers that have spent most of their time institutionalized cutting and this and that and all of a sudden, they just, you know, when we can’t process emotion, we have to get it out. And whether we’re screaming at each other cutting ourselves, you know, Christine Garvin 34:45
yeah, it’s gonna happen some way have to Rachel McCloud 34:47
Yeah, and all of a sudden she has a tool to use this stuff. And she doesn’t need to do that to her body anymore. Yeah, I think and depression any longer because she can move that pain, right and she’s getting better and better and They just, gosh, it’s just it’s, it’s, it’s nothing. Christine Garvin 35:03
Yeah, yeah, Rachel McCloud 35:05
nothing. And so it’s really quite, it’s wonderful. And sometimes I’m jealous. Christine Garvin 35:10
I want to go back. Rachel McCloud 35:12
I’m sitting there working through this stuff, but also teaching brain function and interactions. And, and, and all of a sudden they’re having these epiphanies I had when I was 30. Right. And I’m just like, I Christine Garvin 35:23
could have had, like, 15 more years. Yeah, yeah, Rachel McCloud 35:28
doing this for two months we talked about. Yes, you know, and just and it’s really beautiful. And they can do that. And I love it when parents and kids are doing it together Christine Garvin 35:38
together. Absolutely. Well, and you were, as you were talking about the sleep issue with kids, I thought about, you know, so many women that come to me struggle with sleep, especially post 40, right, because our hormones are starting to change. But one of the biggest things, so many women will think, Oh, I’m waking up in the middle of the night because I have to pee or you know, something like that. But then they’re like, Oh, I can’t go back to sleep. And you know, a good chunk of the time, it’s actually the cortisol is rising in the middle of the night, you know, when it’s not supposed to be and then you’re awake. And yeah, you’re not going back to sleep when that cortisol is too high, or melatonin has been suppressed, you know. And so this is where the, the sleep thing comes in so much for our hormones, right? Just like, I mean, there’s a few things that we really have to focus on when it comes to our hormones. But the circadian rhythm is such a huge, huge part of it, right? Everybody’s like, let’s look at the menstrual cycle. And I’m like, let’s look at the 24 hours that makes up every day of the menstrual cycle to start with, right. So getting good sleep is so important. So here we go, again, starting to regulate cortisol, especially during the day, you know, it’s not just that nighttime cortisol that has, it’s impacted by your cortisol earlier in the day, too. And of course, there’s lots of things before bedtime, that I recommend to do to you know, have your cortisol, come down and stay down. But, again, going back to if you haven’t processed your trauma, those are the things that in the middle of the night, you’re going to wake up and be thinking about, you know, on some level, you know, it’s not you’re not necessary, gonna think about that specific trauma, but how it’s playing out in your current life. Rachel McCloud 37:13
Yeah. And there’s, there’s really, you know, and this is stuff that I teach, but there’s some some simple strategies to really get your body to tell you what, what the issue is. And there’s, there’s simple strategies to get your whole system to tell you which memory this is, and when it’s to get you to be able to pull up the original memory may have happened a bunch of times, but you can get your your whole system is just is still responsive. That you can even though it feels like I’m just anxious, yeah, no, actually, you can find which memory this is. Wow, this is cool and fascinating. But yeah, but when you know, I know nothing about the hormone stuff, like I really stay in my lane over Christine Garvin 37:53
Yeah. Rachel McCloud 37:57
What I do know about the sleep cycles is that that, that our brain is doing a form of EMDR with his surroundings. And it is one of the times for emotional work, and emotional like it’s processing all this emotional stuff. It’s a busy time. Yeah. And so when it can’t complete stuff, we wake up with nightmares. We wake up with those stress dreams. And it’s like it was working on it, but didn’t finish. And yeah, you know, so I’ll have my clients really work with some human intervention during that time to maybe can’t get back to sleep. Yep, a lot of them do, but maybe can’t get back sleep. But let’s get some of that process. Whatever your brain is working on right there. Let’s get that process so that tomorrow night, it can finish. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because we it’s struggling. And my brain will always bring into awareness, whatever it’s struggling with always right. And so and that’s really why we have all this anxiety in our face, because it’s like, I can’t, can I have some help? You don’t know what we’re doing? And we’re running from it. And it’s chasing us? And it’s like, no, and we’re like, leave me alone. We have this internal conflict, and we’re divided, and then we’re falling. And it’s just and so it’s really I love that when we’re doing this, we’re bringing people back together with themselves. Christine Garvin 39:04
Right, right. Absolutely. Is something like EFT Would that work in the middle of the night? If somebody can’t get back to sleep? Yeah, Rachel McCloud 39:12
some of my clients, that’s all they’ll use. So it doesn’t it’s really just, you just need one tool that your, that your survival system listens to? And I have people trial a few because I like it when it works with it fast. Yeah. Right. And we’re working with an electrical process, and we should see results. Well, right. So I’m going to compare a couple and then make some suggestions. Yeah. So it doesn’t matter which intervention it’s just I mean, some people wake up and do breath work. You know, they’re really happy with that. Excellent. And they’re working with that fight or flight system, right? So it doesn’t, I don’t teach a ton of breath work. I don’t Christine Garvin 39:52
like not a ton or any Rachel McCloud 39:55
gossip. I’m not trying to but it really does work with the mind body system. It is like we want to work with the body, how the body works with itself. Yeah, how the mind works with itself. And it’s using those things to shift us into state to fight for states of relaxation and rest. Christine Garvin 40:16
Yep. Yeah, Rachel McCloud 40:17
we can assist. Christine Garvin 40:18
Yeah. And it’s so beautiful. Because it really comes back to the mind body connection. When we’re talking about hormones, you know, my, I always say to people, we jump into wanting to get our estrogen lower, or progesterone, higher, all those things. And it’s like, until you deal with the stress component that is creating, you know, the anxiety, really, stress is anxiety, essentially, underneath it, right? I mean, we can have good stress, certainly, that can motivate us to do things. But for most people, a lot of stress when they think about stress, it’s anxiety that’s underneath it, right. And so that’s kicking off this whole hormonal cascade that we don’t want to go down that path, you know, and especially time and time again. And so that’s when you start to see those issues, those problems start to arise with, you know, heavy periods, PMS, et cetera, et cetera. And so it’s like, this is where you really, you know, and I keep bringing this up, because I want people to understand, that are listening that if you haven’t sort of tackled this area, and you have period problems, hormone problems, this is the time, the time to jump on it, you know, Rachel McCloud 41:24
and I think this stress issue is really important because like, stresses, how stress is brain food. Like if we actually don’t have enough stress, we’re not growing. We’re sad, right? We’re moving backwards. Right. Right. And so and then there’s too much stress, which is traumatizing. There’s more stress than can be processed right now. Yep. Right. And that’s really what trauma is about is it doesn’t have to be a big T trauma. It can just be anything the brain hasn’t. Prophet has yet was able to process right. Yes. And that’s what a lot of little teaser about, it’s just, it’s like, but this wasn’t a big deal. Yeah. And your brain said, it’s still in there. Christine Garvin 41:59
Yeah, it’s still a big deal to me. Yeah, yeah. So Rachel McCloud 42:03
but it’s like, we really want to this process, this mind body connection with the survival system, it’s really it’s designed to keep up with all this stuff. And if the pain level gets gets too high, it’s going to knock off the stress processor. And that means your stress gonna back up. And when you’re in a survival state, you got to you got to do something mind body to cope. So now you got to drink the alcohol, this the that and you know, eat the food and all the things to cope. And but that’s not processing. So right, might be doing all this stuff. But the processing work hasn’t been done yet. Yeah. So really, when we’re processing, stress processing, that we’re getting that our brains ability to process, the stress, we’re growing it, we’re maturing it. So not only do we get the benefit of processing the stress, but our brain gets better at it. Our whole mind body system gets better at it, and then it can really stay in the background. Yeah. And moving well, yeah, in there’s so much stress in life. And it’s such an important component. We don’t want to have to manually operated all the time, right? To get good. We want to work with it enough that your brain is like, okay, I get this like, Okay, we’re gonna do this a lot. All right, let’s build a subconscious program for it. Christine Garvin 43:10
Yeah. The heartbeat. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like where Rachel McCloud 43:13
it’s gonna happen all the time. And we have count on it. And it just gets better and better. So got those experiences. Christine Garvin 43:20
Yeah. And I think that that’s a such an important point, too. I was thinking, as you’re talking about, there’s a study done, that when people looked at stress, you know, a situation is being stressful in a negative way, it’s gonna make the cortisol rise, right. But if they were able to look at a situation as an exciting thing, so kind of flip the script, on it being stressful, their DHEA actually raised, right, which is not exactly antagonistic to cortisol, but kinda right. DHEA is our sort of anti aging hormone. And so it’s a really, you know, we want our DHEA just naturally diminishes as we age, we want more of it. So things like being able to shift that and kind of like what you’re talking about, you know, I think, I don’t know if resilience is the word exactly. But you’re setting up the system to kind of process things in an you know, different way than it has. And it’s like, that literally impacts your hormones. You know, wonderful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know, I loved it. When I found that study. I was like, Oh, that’s so fascinating, right? Because, again, it goes, and this is the thing I just want to add to that, you know, a lot of people jumped on mindset, and mindset, I think is really important. But if you don’t process the trauma, if you don’t, you know, you can’t, you can’t just like positive, think your way out of things, right. It’s like you have to have your body and your brain on board. And then you can really instill that deeper mindset in my opinion. Yeah, Rachel McCloud 44:46
no, you know, you can do with mindset, work and positivity. You can create high performance cannot create mental Christine Garvin 44:54
health and yes, yes, that’s a great way of putting it Yes, mental health and wellness Rachel McCloud 44:59
is created by the brain by processing both the positive and the negative, together, high performance you can create. And this is why a lot of high performers are mentally ill. And you can tell by the the lack of depth in their relationships, yeah, feeling of overwhelm and stress, you can tell these things that they’re there, they’ve, they’ve got their mental filter so tightly and working so well, they will exclude all of the negative and only positive and but they’re moving. It’s like the self is here. And highperformance is here, and they’re getting up. And they’re getting farther away from themselves. And it’s like this, all this, this gap in between begins to create a tension and then increasingly feel that they’re going to break which you are because you’re not supposed to be that far from yourself. Right. Right. Yeah. Because when we come in here, and we process the negative in our process or malfunctions, and it’s like, well, why should I even try? Yeah, because it’s going to malfunction, if you’re avoiding it already. You Your system is already evaluated, that your processor doesn’t work, and it doesn’t. So let’s get your processor up and processing. Yeah, yeah, let’s just take a couple of little practices was on these negative emotions that aren’t going to spiral you out. And let’s keep going until pretty soon brain say, Well, I think I could do a little bit more, you know, I could let me what about this bigger one, you know, and then you’re working on that, and you’re growing this? And then pretty soon the brain is like, Okay, what about this big one? And then now you’re processing that. And it’s just changes everything. And then people are noticing that they can have richer convert richer connections, because you can’t have deep connections if your stuff isn’t there. Of course, yeah. Your way of being exclude yourself, you can’t bring yourself to any your relationships. And then you’re the people are saying, Well, where are you? Why aren’t you showing up? You’re like, I’m here. But no, you’re not. Because you have stayed away from a major part of yourself, which is the dark stuff, the heavy stuff, the the stuff that is difficult to see or know or feel, right. Yeah. Yeah. And if that stuff’s kicking your butt your whole life. I mean, it’s not supposed to be like that. It’s part of our team. Yeah, it’s part of our wellness. And so I am I am, I am a high performer like I am I am for that. That’s why I didn’t know I was mentally ill. Christine Garvin 47:11
I can speak from experience. Rachel McCloud 47:13
And I get a lot of clients that come in like this. And I know the rule is do not shake this boat. And I’m like, I hear the rules. Let’s play by the rules. Because we don’t have to shake the boat to heal. We don’t have to crawl into the abyss. But you know, I also have clients that are in the abyss land, they’re, you know, let’s go. Let’s look around this place this abyss, you know, and let’s get it processed while we’re here. Yeah, all of a sudden, they start popping up into this positivity and growth and wellness and resilience and strength. And then they have both worlds, you know, and that’s what we want. We want we want our high performers that are totally detached from itself to start not being like the the abyss is not going to kill anybody, right? No, that’s not true. The Abyss does but we can be skillful with the the abyss and it’s there’s rich wealth in there. There’s there our self is in there. Christine Garvin 48:00
Yeah. Yeah. All the all the beauty in the tragedy and all of that that comes with it. Yeah. And bring it right. Being home. I love it. Such an amazing conversation. Oh my god, you brought so many good points out and I’m so excited to for everybody to hear this. So let them know where they can contact you. Rachel McCloud 48:18
Yeah, I am. Found this on my website, Rachel mcleod.com. And my name is spelled like Michelle ri ch e LL. E MCC l o UD, which I’m sure you’ll have the link there. If you’re looking for me, that’s me with all the letters. And on there, you’ll find my email list. You can jump on there. I have my the eight part curriculum in a real transformation that I’ve developed for resolving symptoms of anxiety, depression, traumatic stress, disorders, intermission that’s there. And yeah, all sorts of goodies. And then my website, my Facebook group is there. It’s so it’s it’s definitely a place where you can connect and yeah, and YouTube and Christine Garvin 49:03
all that good stuff. Sweet. Yeah, we’ll have we’ll definitely have all the links in there so people can find you directly. So thank you, again for being here today and sharing all this incredible information and your story and everything. And I know that so many people are going to be inspired to really, maybe they have known for a little while that they need to tackle this and now they’re going to be ready. So appreciate that for having Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate it. All right, you guys. I will see you next time. Transcribed by https://otter.ai |
