Why Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy Is Life Changing with Ricky Brandon

Transcript:

Christine Garvin 0:02
Hey everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of hormonally speaking, we are talking one of my favorite topics. If you’ve been around here listening to the podcast for a while, you know that I’m a big proponent of bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, otherwise known as BHRT, and how much it can help not just with long term issues that affect so many women, including bone health and heart health and brain health, but how it can also help so much during the peri menopausal and menopausal transitions. So I’m talking with an expert in this area today. His name is Ricky, Brandon, and he is a Health and Wellness Advocate. He and his wife Kandi started hormone balance centers because they could not find the high level of care they desired for their own family. After years of searching, 1000s of hours and training, research and trial and error, he has finally landed on the process and system that mixes traditional medicine with alternative medicine and helps people feel great again and live longer and younger with natural hormone replacement therapy. Welcome, Ricky.

Ricky Brandon 1:06
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited to talk with you and your audience about this. Yeah, well, let’s start off be fore we go into all of the kind of specifics around BHRT. Let’s talk about how this process for you and your wife, like how that went. And I’m sure a lots of walls that you hit along the way. It’s the same story, everyone has really just a little different twists and turn. But you feel like something’s wrong. Particularly women are really great at knowing if something’s wrong, guys, not so much. We ignore a lot.

But you know, there’s something going on in your body, right? And so then you go to the doctor, he runs some labs, he or she runs some labs, and they sit down with you. And you’re with them about 15 minutes and they go well, we looked at your labs, everything looks normal for your age.

And you don’t feel normal. You’re like I’m about I feel horrible. So what’s going on? And so then you start in and you do this a few times, maybe it’s the doctor, I go to a different? Well, you know, everything looks normal, you’re within range on your labs. And this was happening to us. My wife felt terrible. We’ve had four kids, she put on a tremendous amount of weight. During that time, she was working hard to get it off. Nothing was happening. And she just felt off. She was asleep in the morning and, and I would get up and help get the kids ready. And she would just be dragging in the morning. And I remember one day I came home from work.

And she was sitting on the couch.

And she looks up at me and she goes, I am so thirsty.

But I don’t even feel like getting up off the couch to get a drink of water. Will you bring me one.

And she had been there for a little while thinking about getting up to get a drink of water. Yeah, I’m like, Man, this is this is a problem. Now. I had a friend and had done a lot of work. And he was he he owned he started one of the very first bioidentical hormone clinics here in Utah. And so this was this was a long time ago. He’s he’d done he’d been doing this for years. And I had helped him quite a lot at his clinic with different things.

And I said, Let’s go see Dr. Jones. You know, sometimes you just can’t be a prophet in your own backyard.

And my wife’s like, no, no, no. Well, then we’re going to the gym, we’re working out like crazy. I’m getting results she’s not and the gym owner comes over and he says candy, my wife’s name is Candy. He says, I’ve been watching you work, you should be getting better results. Have you ever had your hormones checked? Ah, here it is. Like I’ve been saying this. I’ve been saying this

Christine Garvin 3:52
from somebody else. So

Ricky Brandon 3:55
we go and she kind of didn’t want to go to a friend. But I said, Look, he’s the best, he’s the best. And, boy, we didn’t hear your labs are normal. You know, the interesting thing that I’ve learned throughout all of this is that women have they have to become master negotiators for their own health. And you have to know what’s going on. You have to educate yourself and you have to kind of fight for yourself. Because these doctors, it’s not that they they don’t know what they’re doing. They just don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to hormones. They’re not specialists in hormones. So they, they go to a few hours. It’s really it’s not very much hormone information they get and their school is kind of funded by the drug companies who sell the synthetic hormones and they get this skewed view and they’re all told that hormones are bad. Look, there’s this argument or hormones bad or hormones good. If hormones were bad, we would take out all women’s ovaries at age 30 Right When you know, they’d be done having kids, we take out your ovaries and away you go. But hormones are good your body makes them it needs them. And, and so, through this process, we just learned so much. Just through life, I’ve learned so much about how to deal with doctors, they have a job to do they have protocols they have to follow. And probably this is my, this is my first tip for everyone. Sometimes you have to ignore those ranges that are put on your labs. These are averages that are mixed with old people, young people, healthy people, sick people.

Christine Garvin 5:37
Yeah, it’s like look at our country.

Ricky Brandon 5:40
And these averages keep changing, right? With insurance actuaries, the people who decide where do we make the most money without losing the most money and without killing too many people? Right. So these ranges have changed over the years, you can go back historically and see how they’ve changed. I’ll give you an example. I know, I know, we’re talking menopause. But just for men, for example, testosterone range. For women, it’s very small, right? In fact, the average range or the normal range is like zero to four. Yeah, yep. Zero.

Christine Garvin 6:18
You don’t need any testosterone?

Ricky Brandon 6:21
Well, man, it’s 300 to 900. This means if you’re at 301, they’re gonna say, Well, you’re in normal range, right? A regular endocrinologist is only going to treat you when you’re at a deficit. Right? If you’re within normal range, they won’t treat you some will. But most won’t. Yeah, this is like this is like saying, I don’t know what the poverty level is. But let’s say it’s $25,000 a year. And you make $25,500 a year, you’re not going to live like the guy making $40,000 a year. Right? But you’re within range, right? And so let’s not have you get a better job, or or do any of that let’s not have you increase your skills, until you get down below 25,000. Let’s wait till you’re completely in poverty. And then we’ll try to help you this is this is the problem with ranges and they’re changing them. The male range used to be I it was, it was like 500 to 11 1200 They keep moving it down, because the insurance companies don’t want to pay for it. Yeah. Yeah. And, and they know, you’re just gonna be a little uncomfortable, maybe not be your best. And I don’t know about you, but I want to live in high optimal, right? I don’t want to live in low average, I want to be high optimal. And so this is what happened to our to my wife and I, we go together. And by the way, if you’re married, and you go to your hormone, Doctor, I would suggest you you bring your spouse, or your partner or whatever, because they are going to have these moments of like, oh my gosh, you really can’t help this.

Christine Garvin 8:06
This is displaying a lot. You’re

Ricky Brandon 8:08
not You’re not, you’re not just making this stuff up. And this is the sad thing about menopause. Women keep going to the doctor. And the doctor says, well, your labs look normal. I don’t feel normal. So they try again, your labs look normal, I don’t feel normal. And eventually they’ll put them on an antidepressant or so

Christine Garvin 8:29
100% That’s where they go. It’s birth control or antidepressant.

Ricky Brandon 8:33
The problem is not it’s not, you know, your SSRI uptake, it’s not it’s not antidepressant. The problem is estrogen and progesterone. If you have an estrogen deficiency, why not give you estrogen? Why give me this other thing, this is like going to the, this is like going to the to the I mean, to the mechanic, and you go, my car makes this loud noise when I’m driving it. And so it feels like something’s wrong with my car. And they turn the radio up full blast and say just leave it like that you won’t hear the noise anymore. This is what this is what giving you an answer or, or my check engine lights on put a piece of black tape on it. And yes, I Yeah, it’s fine. Just ignore that check engine light. This is what they’re doing to you. They’re giving you stuff to attack the symptoms, instead of treating the root cause which is hormone deficiencies. And so my wife goes, we get treated she gets on. First of all, her iron was terrible for ferritin is through the floor. He goes I don’t I and I think half of you out there are probably anemic and you don’t know it or you’re anemic and you’re trying but your supplement is not the right supplement right. And you remain anemic. Right? So which gives you so much so first thing he does like like your ions to the floor. I don’t even know how you’re walking. If you had, if you were a little worse off symptom wise, I’d send you to the hospital for an infusion. It’s that bad,

Christine Garvin 10:07
right? That’s why she couldn’t get her up and get a glass of water for herself, you know?

Ricky Brandon 10:12
And then then he goes like this. He says, Please don’t tell me you’re vegetarian. And she goes, No, I eat meat. And he goes, what do you do? What is your regular doctor tell you for your iron? He says, Well, he has me take a supplement. And he goes, Well, it’s not working. Right? Tell me what you’re taking. And she and she. And then she always goes, well, if I you know, if I take too much, then I get constipated. My tummy hurts and, and he says, Well, you know, that’s, that’s got to stop. I’m going to change your iron supplement right away. I want you to take this one. And I want you to take this food enzyme with it. And I want you to take it on this schedule. Almost instantly, her energy came back.

Christine Garvin 10:55
Yeah. It’s amazing. When you start getting iron in there when you haven’t had it. He gets

Ricky Brandon 11:00
her on progesterone. She starts sleeping great. She was estrogen dominant. Now, that didn’t mean her estrogen was too high. It was too high for her progesterone, right? We start getting her some progesterone, she starts sleeping great. She wakes up refreshed. I’m no longer sending the kids off to school by myself. And I’ll never forget about just over a weekend. And it’s not about weight. I want to be clear, this is not about vanity. We’re in the bathroom. She steps on the scale. And she almost starts crying. She goes Ricky, I’ve lost two pounds. And she says I’ve tried so hard for so long. Yeah. If that was all it was, and I’ve suffered this long. I’m mad. Yeah. Yeah. You know, not mad because it was so mad because it was so easy, and no one helped her. Everyone was afraid. If you’re on hormones, you’re gonna get cancer. They said, You can’t be on them too long. This is normal for your age, on and on. And we’ve all heard it. You’ve heard it. All your audience has heard it. And so Dr. Jones, retired. I’ve been studying herbal medicine and all these things for a long time. As we looked for someone else who did what he did, we just never found the same spirit, the heart of a teacher. They were marketers looking for numbers. Because everybody wants their hormones fixed. Because you feel great, right? And I had this idea in my head, that if you can help people feel good again. Then they can live a wellness lifestyle. Everybody’s going to these look like I love naturopath and, and dietitians, and all of that. Coaches, health coaches, I mean, I’d call myself a health coach. But when someone is depleted and their cup is empty, and you tell them I want you counting these macros and eating these foods and followings, you can’t do it. It takes all you have just to get through the day. So we quickly came up with this idea. We want to help people feel great again, so that they can live a wellness, high lifestyle.

Christine Garvin 13:24
I think it’s a really important point that I want people to really sit for a moment and take in write it. You have to I mean, there’s so much focus on doing all these things, and I get it I do in my practice. But when you’re so depleted, it’s not going to happen, right? It’s just

Ricky Brandon 13:41
giving from an empty cup, right? You go to the doctor and diet and exercise, just do that. Yeah.

Christine Garvin 13:48
That again, you’re like, Oh, I haven’t tried that.

Ricky Brandon 13:51
And you’re not lazy, right? You’re not lazy, we start to feel broken, and we start to feel like, man, there’s something wrong with me that I can’t do this. And so we go to the doctors for help, and they just tell you to do more of the stuff you can’t do anyway. Right? You gotta get you got to get a little little fuel in your engine, a little stuff in your cup, you know, and hopefully one day your cup gets to overflowing and you can give to and serve the people around you from the overflow instead of depleting your cup. Because because I’ve learned this to from doing this for for years that women will sacrifice so much for their kids, for their husbands, for their partners for their friends. And they will just keep giving I mean even even clothes shopping, right? I know that everyone’s special, but even my wife will buy clothes for the kids and me and everyone else and and she’s like well my wardrobes fine she’s giving from an empty cup. Yeah, we got to get that cup to overflowing so that you can show up the where you want to show up? Incidentally, once, once she and I got feeling better, because I’ve got my own story. I won’t tell it here because Nan story probably doesn’t fit here. But men kind of go through a menopause also, yeah. Our hormones go down. And it’s going down earlier and earlier, just like women. Well,

Christine Garvin 15:19
I’ll tell you, I don’t work with a ton of men in my practice, but the few that I do, and we’ve run their hormones, always testosterone is much lower at a younger age than traditionally, right. Yeah.

Ricky Brandon 15:31
And it’s not about sexual function, right? It’s not about, look, it affects your mood, it affects your drive. You’re like, I just don’t even feel like doing hobbies anymore. Yeah, that’s true in both men and women when your testosterone is low. Yeah. I just, you know, and people say, you know, they’re afraid they will Oh, man, they’re given all these men, testosterone, there’s testosterone clinics popping up everywhere. And I think they’re gonna have roid rage.

Christine Garvin 15:58
Right, right. I’ve never

Ricky Brandon 15:59
seen it only in one guy who totally abused his dose dose. Yeah. And he was abusing it by a lot. But for myself, I showed up better and happier for my kids, because I wasn’t on my last nerve, right? You want to see me grouchy asked me a question when I just got nothing left. Yeah. And I’m just gonna snap it. Just do it. Just whatever. I became so much nicer. Yeah. And my drive was so much better. I could deal with problems better. Yeah. But my testosterone got where it’s supposed to be.

Christine Garvin 16:36
Yeah. And I actually, you know, I liked that we’re talking about this aspect to not just because, you know, I think it’s important information to know, but women that are married to men or, you know, in relationships with men, who, in this middle age start to notice the differences. It’s important for them to be educated around it. And you know, when you were talking earlier about that range, I thought about one of my clients, we ended up running just some labs on her son, who was 19. And his testosterone, I think was about 350. Right. And like you said, that slip for a 19 year old, right, like, that’s super low. It but his doctor didn’t want to do anything, because it was within range, you know. And then on the opposite side, her husband, who’s late 40s, early 50s, you know, his testosterone was I forget what it was, but it was it was on the lower end, but they didn’t want to do any testosterone therapy, because he had had a is a PSA. Is that what it’s called? The

Ricky Brandon 17:43
tests? Yeah. You’re

Christine Garvin 17:45
testing for prostate. Exactly. It was It wasn’t high yet. But it was it was getting towards high. So they did not want to give him any testosterone. Because they said, you know, the threat here. So I would love if you have an opinion on that.

Ricky Brandon 18:01
Yeah, I absolutely do. Yeah. And it’s the same threat opinion. They tell women. You don’t want to be on hormones, because you’re going to get breast cancer. And they tell man, you don’t want to be on testosterone special and they always test test your PSA and your testosterone at the same time to see if you’re gonna if you’re on a risk for prostate cancer. There’s a doctor and he’s like the former foremost expert on testosterone for men. His name is Dr. Morgenthaler. You can google him and find his book. I think his first book is the best. It’s called testosterone for life. And when he was going to doing his thesis and everything like that, they basically castrated lizards. And so they had no sexual function. And these lizards, they would put them in with these female lizards and, and usually they would play and the men would do this push up, kind of dance mating ritual thing. And when they depleted all the testosterone and castrated them, they put them in the in the cage together. And the women would try so hard, and the man would just ignore them. They just sat there as if they were the only ones in the cage. They took the same lizards injected testosterone into the certain part of their brain. And they started playing again, and enjoying life. They couldn’t mate. It had nothing to do with mating. He’s done study after study after study about he’s he’s given men, testosterone who have had prostate cancer. And actually, he’s found that it’s protective when done in the right way. Yeah, yeah, it’s protective. I’ve seen guys with prostate cancer and they give them testosterone blockers. Right. And they are so miserable. They have no want for life. Yeah. And it’s sad, really, it’s fear. It’s fear because I have one or two studies. I can show you a stack of studies on the other side that show you the opposite, right? And it’s the same thing with breast cancer, right? In fact, in the old days when they did breast cancer surgery, right to remove the breast cancer, they would wait till you were at the point in your cycle when progesterone was the highest, because it actually stopped the spread. And then sometimes they would find that the that the the cancer had been kind of encased because of the progesterone interest and stopped from spreading the problem, right, the story that they’ve all heard is, and I, I can guarantee you’ve talked about the Women’s Health Initiative study. Yep. And and just the recap is that was a study that was partially done. And it was done around synthetic hormones. And at that time, they were giving everyone Premarin or print Pro, which is synthetic. And then they they said, well, and the first the first report said, progesterone, they didn’t say progestins, but it was progestins. That said progesterone increases your risk of breast cancer and, and especially when mixed with estrogen, right? And these were synthetic. So we talk about progesterone, and I know we’re gonna get to BHRT stuff. But bioidentical means it looks exactly like what your body produces. If you look at it under a microscope, the molecular structure is exactly the same. Well, Premarin is made from their urine, right? might be good for horses,

Christine Garvin 21:46
right? That’s great.

Ricky Brandon 21:51
And then things like birth control, and all of those things. It’s something usually called medroxyprogesterone. acetate. And if you look at him, and if I could show you a picture of him I wish I had when I would hold up for you. They look different. There’s a core that looks the same. But that medroxyprogesterone acetate has a methyl group and an acetate group added to it. That’s the part that your body doesn’t like, yeah, it’ll keep you from getting pregnant.

Christine Garvin 22:19
Right? And it’ll stop the bleeding. It’ll stop the bleeding that had heavy bleeding. But other than that, it basically does nothing else that progesterone will do for you.

Ricky Brandon 22:29
And it stopped people symptoms. Yeah, everybody was on it. Yeah. Everybody like, like, it was crazy numbers, like 70 80% of women in a certain age range. We’re taking Premarin or print Pro. And then this came out, right. And this is not too long ago. This is like this is

Christine Garvin 22:48
last 20 years ago. Yeah.

Ricky Brandon 22:51
And I’ll never forget, right? They’re saying they’re saying that this stuff causes cancer. And now you have all these women who are on it. And they’re at this quandary, right? Like, what do I do? I feel so good. I’ve gotten my life back because of this drug. Do I go off of it? And immediately have my symptoms back? Or do I roll the dice and maybe get cancer in 15 years? And you’d be surprised how many stayed on it? Oh, yeah. Because they didn’t want those symptoms back? Yeah. Yeah. Dice, right. And, you know, doctors start sending out letters, you knew the risks. When you signed up, you signed your disclaimers and all of that. But that same thing, the same thing doesn’t happen when you’re taking bio identical, just the opposite happens. And again, we can show you stacks and stacks of studies. Not this one study, but stacks of studies that say, progesterone, testosterone, Ester dial, or bioidentical estrogen and women, protects you from breast cancer. It works better than osteo pyrosis medications, right at reversing, not just stopping, but reversing. I’ve seen people with testosterone and the right hormone balance, reverse type two diabetes. Wow. Because you can imagine that testosterone helps you build muscle tone, gets rid of visceral fat everywhere, not just you know, it’s the fat everywhere strengthens your muscles. Your heart is a muscle. I’ve seen I’ve seen doctors tell men look with testosterone, you’re gonna have a stroke. It’s not true, right? Not true. They don’t have time to become experts in it. That’s why you go to a hormone expert and you need you need someone who has the heart of a teacher. Yeah, there’s plenty of sorry, I Gotta get on a soapbox for just a second. There’s plenty of people who are out there happy to market something to you. And they’ll market hormones to you. And they’ll charge you some crazy amount of money. But they won’t that you know how many people I run into that are on a pellet. And I go what’s in your pellet? They go, I don’t know, pellets, little rice shaped thing they inject in your, in your butt, too. And you just do it once every three or four months, and the hormones trickle out into your body. And I go what’s in it? They go? I don’t know. Because they weren’t taught. Right. What we love to do is yeah, you’re gonna start with labs. Even though I said those lab ranges are crazy. The danger of labs are who is in who’s interpreting them.

Christine Garvin 25:45
100%? Yeah.

Ricky Brandon 25:48
Sit down with the labs, imagine sitting down and going line by line through every lab and spending an hour with someone answering your questions. Even predicting, saying, you probably feel like this, right? And you go, Oh, my gosh, that’s exactly validated, right? And they come out in tears going. This makes so much sense. And it should make sense to you. And they teach you how it all works together. You know, what your, what you’re prescribed and what you’re taking. And you know why. And you also know how it should make you feel. So we do labs up front, and then we treat the person. We don’t keep treating the labs. Now. I know you need to test labs to see where they’re at. But we don’t test them that often. But we meet with you often. Mm hmm. Because you need to adjust those anyway. So that’s, I don’t know, where did we go? What how did we

Christine Garvin 26:42
all right, I it’s all good stuff. One thing I wanted to say off of what you mentioned about, you know, the studies, and I think this is so pertinent right now, because, you know, this large study just came out on a wreath row tall, and suddenly everybody’s like, Oh, it causes heart disease, and you’re gonna have a heart attack, if you’re eating a research Hall, it’s the same thing, right? That the media, unfortunately, will pick out a small thing from one study or, you know, it’s not like the media is reading the studies thoroughly, which most of the studies always are saying, you know, this, there’s correlation, not causation. There’s this, we need more studies, all those kinds of things, but the big headlines are, this is going to, you know, cause heart disease with hormones, it was this is gonna cause cancer. And this is the problem. And like, you were saying why it’s so important to go to somebody that is truly educated, and is in there reading all the different studies because in same thing with the research, oh, there’s actually a bunch of studies already out there around it, right. And same thing with hormones, we had so many studies leading up to, you know, the Women’s Health Initiative that showed all the positives. And then it was kind of this one study that said, Nope, things are red. And suddenly, there are literally doctors to this day, that still go by the, you know, the Women’s Health Study. And it’s just like, Okay, there’s so many women in particular that are suffering because of that belief system, because not every doctor unfortunately is going to get up to date on what is out there.

Ricky Brandon 28:18
On top of it, they’re terrified, right? They’re living with these symptoms, they have this anxiety that they’ve never had before. That puts a stress on their body. And then someone like you or I come along and say you should be on hormones, but it’s been beat into their head that they’re going to get cancer. They’re going to get something bad is going to happen. Yep. I’m just this is what my this is. Look, I, I know, we should embrace what our body’s doing. And take care of it. And there’s lots of people telling you, this is just a natural part of the next phase of your life. Just roll with it. I’m something different lay in bed for a week, every month. This is your new phase. Right,

Christine Garvin 29:05
right. And good luck when you get there friends.

Ricky Brandon 29:10
And yeah, I’m all for natural, right? I mean, we’ve had all four of our kids at home with a midwife. Not because I’m anti doctor, it just kind of turned out that way. That’s another story for another podcast. But I learned so much through that about protocol, because we had a doctor and a midwife. And we had just kind of mentioned to the doctor, hey, we’re kind of I had a midwife because I heard they give great prenatal care. And they did. We would go to the doctor and I’d say what about this? We’ve been thinking about this. And he’d say, Don’t worry about that. That’s my job. Any appointments were 10 minutes. Do you want to do this thing where you see if your kid is going to be down syndrome? All these side effects could have then, you know, from doing the procedure, but and I turned to my wife was does it change anything like? So what if we know our kids going to be down syndrome? Are we going to abort? Right? No, we’re not. Okay. So why do the tests right? I find out that goop that they put in the kids eyes, when they’re born, they put this Vaseline type stuff in the kids eyes. I did my homework on it. I asked the midwife, she tells me what it’s for the because every time I went to visit like an niece or a nephew, they had, you know, when you look at them through the glass, they have this stuff in their eyes. And what is that? It’s the silver nitrate stuff. And they put it in for, because this is what the doctor told me. Most people are dishonest about their sexual history. And they might have an STD. So there’s an STD that gets passed to the children through the eyes as they go through the birth canal. I said what if they go see section? Right? They still do it. I go, they didn’t go through the birth canal. Right? Still do it. Because it’s protocol. And we don’t want.

Christine Garvin 31:09
Even if you put it on after the baby is born, it’s supposed to protect it. You’ve already gone through this.

Ricky Brandon 31:18
Anyway, so as we went on, the midwife would teach us for 45 minutes when we ask the question, guess what, when you’re educated? Fear starts going away? Yes. I’ve never been afraid to take a test I was totally prepared for right. It’s when I haven’t prepared. I don’t know the answers that I’m afraid. So she starts teaching my wife, this is what your body’s gonna be doing. It’s natural. This is what it’s supposed to do. You’re we’re not treating you for an illness, because you’re pregnant. Your pregnancy is not an illness. This is what you’re supposed to do. Yeah. And this is how your body’s gonna act. And this is how Pitocin works. So they give you a Pitocin to induce labor. And she goes like this, like this makes this is where the start of my education happened, right? We’re having our kids and I start seeing this paradox between people who care, and people who have a job that have strict protocols. They care too, but they’re not allowed. We literally had our doctor tell us, I’m not allowed to be friends with you. Because when we’re friends, we bend protocol. Hmm, interesting. We when we told him, we’re thinking of maybe going with the midwife to have our baby, could you be our backup doctor, because we really liked him. We went home three days later, we got a letter of discharge, because we were too high risk.

Christine Garvin 32:30
Yeah.

Ricky Brandon 32:34
So the midwife teaches us about Pitocin, right? She says, Your body’s supposed to have a contraction this way. And then it goes this way. And that’s what opens everything up makes it comfortable for the baby to come out. This makes sense. What does Pitocin do? It makes everything all at once go like and it doesn’t stop. You never get a break. You’re supposed to go like this and then relax. You get a break, baby gets a break. It’s supposed to go like this, then relax. You get a break, maybe gets a break. But Pitocin goes, push, push, push, push, push, push, push, push, push, push, push, you never get a break.

Christine Garvin 33:10
It’s like, such a like, the way that we do things in this country in this world now, right? It’s just like, go hard. That is not the point. But

Ricky Brandon 33:19
then what happens? baby’s heart rate goes up. Yeah, baby’s in distress. Increased percentages of C section.

Christine Garvin 33:29
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s what’s interesting about the doctor discharging you all from being high risk. And yet, the highest risk in this country is having a baby in a hospital.

Ricky Brandon 33:39
It’s crazy. It’s crazy. Yeah. They give them epidurals, they stop progressing, right? They give them you know, the Pitocin everyone’s in pain, right? It’s but but when my wife knew, this is what my body’s supposed to do. And then in this time, right, then she teaches me, Ricky, your job. When that contraction stops, you know, when you think you’re relaxed, you’re like sitting at a chair. But then your shoulder hurts because you were kind of clenching your arm. You thought you were relaxed, but you weren’t, you have to kind of think about that shoulder to get that muscle to release. She goes, Ricki, your job is when that contraction lets up is to kind of find those places where she’s holding it, touch it, and tell her relax, let that go. And it won’t that

Christine Garvin 34:31
I love that. And I mean, it’s really everything you’re saying is, you know, part of why I do this podcast, and you know, try and really teach women these things about our bodies so that you don’t have to be scared so that you can be empowered in these different situations. Instead of being like I have to give over my bodily autonomy, my you know, natural way of processing things to a doctor. because I don’t understand what is happening in my body. We work

Ricky Brandon 35:04
really hard. In fact, I slip up and I call people patients who come to our clinic and we treat people all over right? We do we do telemedicine, okay. I mean, I’m not thankful for COVID. But I am thankful that it really loosened up telemedicine. Yes, you have some people come to us in some state or town and they’re like, there is no one in my town. Who knows anything about bioidentical

Christine Garvin 35:24
hormone. That’s a lot of America. Unfortunately, I’m

Ricky Brandon 35:27
so thankful that we’re able to help them. And because it doesn’t need a physical examination, we’re looking at labs, we’re teaching you and you get to make decisions. Look, here’s what I think. What do you think? In all, yeah, you know, and they meet with us frequently talk about how they’re feeling, how are they sleeping? How’s their energy? What, and then we keep tweaking it right together. So we get to be the knowledge that keeps you from doing something dumb, right? But you’re really driving. Yeah. And so we try to call them clients, not patients. Because I hate that feeling. When you become a patient of a doctor, then they just tell you what to do. And if you don’t do it, they’re like, Yeah, that’s your problem. Right? You know, but let’s talk about it. Let’s let me teach you what I know. You tell me how you feel. This is what I think this is how I think it will work. And away we go. Right. And there’s no fear in that. Yeah. Especially if you do some reading and stuff on your own. listen to podcasts, hear enough of these stories to go look, I did this. I’m not afraid. And my life has been better. We have we have one patient. She’s 83 years old. She still works. He’s a ball of fire. She’s the youngest. 83 year old. I mean, I know some 60 year olds who are older than her. Yeah. And she comes in here for appointments. She only comes about once a quarter. In the beginning. We meet with people at least monthly right? To keep tweaking and changing things. See how they feel. And it takes a couple months to get to where you feel great. I don’t want you giving up. Hang in there for a little while. But man, there’s these people who have been on hormones this ad thrilled later, lady came to us because her doctor died.

Christine Garvin 37:21
Oh my goodness. She’s like, I need someone else.

Ricky Brandon 37:24
She’s looking for someone who thinks this way. She’s been on bioidentical hormones for 20 years. Yeah. Guess what? She never got breast cancer.

Christine Garvin 37:32
Right? And she probably said, Yeah, I’m sure she looks 62 and then said of 80s. You know,

Ricky Brandon 37:39
she’s so cute. She makes us treats brings us treats in the office when she comes she won’t do telemedicine because she can’t get her computer to work. So she she drives a bit to get here. Yeah. And, and she’s such a joy. I love that. Could you could you imagine being old and being such a joy to be around? Right. Right. bring life to the party? Yeah. Instead of sucking the energy out of the room?

Christine Garvin 38:04
Yeah. Well, I have to tell you, I went to see an esthetician last year. And I think she was 78. And she actually didn’t start taking hormones, I think until her 70s You know, and she said to me, they will pry them out of my cold dead hands. I will be on hormones. So my last breath, but same thing. You know, I mean, she 78 year old, she is literally just still working because she enjoys it so much. You know, and it’s to have that energy. So on that point, I do have a question for you. Because I get asked this a lot too. How is it in terms of you know, is it safe? Essentially, if a woman has not been put on hormones, and it’s 10 plus years, since she’s been in menopause? Is it safe for her to go on hormones at that point?

Ricky Brandon 38:57
So you mean she’s been in menopause for 10 years? And then we’re gonna go Yeah, so yes, she can go on hormones, but we got to be a little careful. Okay. Okay. So I know there’s some controversy over estrogen or estradiol being taken orally or via cream. The real answer is, it depends on your age.

Christine Garvin 39:19
Hmm. Interesting. Okay. So over

Ricky Brandon 39:23
a certain age, you don’t want to start on an orally but if your way, you know, 10 years before men menopause and your estrogen is low, the oral actually helps you it helps different things right. So many people are afraid of of the oral but it kind of depends on where you’re at in the phase right? And the estrogen is the one I worry about, not so much about progesterone. Right? So estrogen, you just administer, administer it in a different a different way. But yes, you can go on. If you’re 10 years past menopause, and it is going to benefit you you’re still going to get the As health benefits, you’re going to get them better if you get on earlier. Right you want you don’t want to be in menopause before you start this, right? You want to go into menopause on it and keep adjusting, keep adjusting, keep adjusting, listen to your body, talk to your practitioner, say, Look, I’m feeling this way, well, maybe let’s let’s test one more time, and let’s see where you’re at, maybe we need to up this or lower that, or change this or change that. And so don’t be afraid of it. If you have, if you’re older, you will still get the benefits from it, the health benefits, you’ll still get your life back, or parts of your life back. You know, if you’re that old, and you’re and and one of us on hormones, and one of us not, you probably need to both coming together because one of us is going to get more life and leave the other one in the dust. Coming together.

Christine Garvin 40:55
Yeah. So let’s talk about because I know this can be confusing for a lot of people, you know, particularly with women, because they’re you’re dealing with so many different hormones. What are the different forms of bio identicals that you can take the different hormones and do you have favorites in each you kind of mentioned a little bit about, you know, the oral estrogen and the debates, whether that’s good or not. So,

Ricky Brandon 41:20
I’ll tell you, most people on creams, we kind of stay away from oral estrogen, some people are afraid of it, right. I’ve done enough homework to know in a if you’re in the middle of menopause, if you’re over 60, you don’t want to start taking oral estrogen. So I’ll leave it at that. But but even younger, we’re putting them on cream if they need it.

Christine Garvin 41:44
Okay, so in terms of testing, you test up front. And then I know particularly I guess it’s primarily with progesterone cream. That doesn’t show up on serum testing, correct? Yeah. So how do you how do you work with I

Ricky Brandon 42:01
hardly ever use? Like, I’ll use oral progesterone. Gotcha. Mm compounded oral progesterone, sir. You don’t get the sleep benefits with the cranes, right? Yeah, it processes differently in your body. That’s why you don’t get this this. You know, when it hits your liver and it does its thing. That’s when it does its thing, you know?

Christine Garvin 42:23
Yeah, absolutely. No. Progesterone

Ricky Brandon 42:26
always is oral. Yeah. Yep.

Christine Garvin 42:28
That’s the first thing with the sleep issue that comes up for so many women, particularly in that early to mid morning. Actually, some,

Ricky Brandon 42:34
some women have have two capsules. Yeah. And they’ll, they’ll kind of you know that they feel like they’re not sleeping like they should they’ll take 50 on top of their 150. Yeah. And look, really I want to say that everybody really does process differently. We start you low and start moving you up. And the goal is to feel at optimal without adverse side effects of too much. So too much progesterone, you’d have like a progesterone hangover in the morning. Right? Right. You’re just too groggy. So we want to drop you back down just below that where you’re getting awesome sleep. You’re getting all those happy feelings. It’s the happy hormone for women. And, like, believe it or not, we even have some men taking progesterone.

Christine Garvin 43:24
Oh, yeah. I mean, I’ve certainly heard that it can be beneficial to Yeah, the

Ricky Brandon 43:29
virgin too. And so anyways, so we’re almost always oral progesterone now. I do a compounded capsule there are turkeys like little lozenges and stuff. I don’t like those as much. People tend to get better benefit from the they just just report back they like that oral capsule. Estrogen cream. Usually if a woman’s on testosterone, it’s a cream. You just need so little.

Christine Garvin 43:55
What do you think about combined or, excuse me estrogen and testosterone creams do those work okay, together or do you prefer silently?

Ricky Brandon 44:04
I think so. We always do it separately, but it might be just because I haven’t learned enough about combining them yet. I probably need to have a conversation with my favorite pharmacist. So go and learn some stuff listening to your podcast like

Christine Garvin 44:18
oils. Yeah, yeah,

Ricky Brandon 44:20
I want to I’m gonna investigate that because I like that idea of like the essential oil drops. Yeah, it seems so much. It just seems awesome. So I’m gonna head down that road.

Christine Garvin 44:32
Yeah. Oh, I love that with with the oral progesterone. Do you usually start more like 50 milligrams or even lower? Or do you start around 100

Ricky Brandon 44:44
It usually we’re at around 100 When we start Yeah.

Christine Garvin 44:48
Because so much of it metabolizes into our pregnenolone right so

Ricky Brandon 44:52
and, man that. That is like you said people say you’re gonna pry this out of my dead cold. They start panicking. It’s not like you’re not addicted to it, but you do feel good people have this thing like, Well, shouldn’t I just let my body do what it does and deplete? You know, there’s this, I call it. I call it the neuro, neuro endocrine theory of aging, right? Are my hormones low? Because I aging? Or am I aging? Because my hormones are low. Right, right. And we tend to believe it’s because your hormones are low. Now, why are my hormones low? We know this story, right? Stress, diet, lifestyle, we were never meant to live the way we live. Now. I hate when we say stress. And people think, well, I don’t have a stressful life. It doesn’t mean that you have some New York Stock Exchange job, right? There’s so many ways, stress comes from not sleeping. Stress comes from not drinking enough water, stress comes emotionally. Stress comes physically. Maybe you have chronic pain, inflammation, all of those things cause stress. And hormones are just messengers that are telling your body what to do. And so they say, Well, can I just start on one hormone? Now? They all work together? Yeah, they talk to each other. You know which one you want to start with? I don’t know. If you’re low in three, which one you want to start with? You know, you read them. All? Right. You need them all. Yeah. And it’s like, right, really, it’s amazing. I feel so lucky to be in this business. And we find and hire doctors who are kind of tired. They got into medicine, because they want to help people. And they’re tired of meeting quotas. They do have quotas. Yep. And they got into medicine because they want to help. And then they stay in medicine because they take care of their family. And they’ve got jobs they have, you have to see this many patients this many things this many that. And then you get your bonus. They depend on their bonus, they go into debt, to get to become a doctor. And now these big hospitals are hiring them and putting them on salary. Right? More and more private practices are closing, they can’t practice how they want, they have to follow this rule book that’s given to them. I tried to hire a doctor once. I gave him some case studies that how would you treat these? I was trying to see if he was open minded enough to be able to treat people and not the labs, because they beat it into you. When you’re a doctor, you have to follow these protocols, these rules that we give you. If this happens, you do this, this and this. And that’s it. Yeah. And if they come back, and that didn’t help, then you switch to that. And that’s how people are ending up on antidepressants. And exactly, yeah, all of these things. So this doctor, he was actually a cardiologist, I was trying to change him into hormone Doctor way educated. Yeah. And I showed him a man with a testosterone. And he goes, I can’t put him on that much testosterone, he’s gonna stroke out. And I’m like, he’s still within range. And he said, it’s not gonna be your butt on the stand. As they’re saying, These are the protocols. Why did you break protocol? Interesting. He goes, it’s my malpractice insurance. Yet you find other doctors who read the studies, and they are 110%. Okay, getting people on that upper edge of the range, sometimes over the range, right? Because their body is just not reacting and they need more. Yes, we see that with bioroid. I love and hate thyroid medicine. Because it tricks you everybody needs a different mount. There really is. You know, and everybody, man, sorry, I

Christine Garvin 48:55
know, my roid thyroid is tough. I 100% agree. And one of my colleagues, you know, she’s a good example. You know, she’s, she has Hashimotos and has bought all kinds of things over the years like lime and she’s, she’s doing well but her T three actually needs to be up around six. For her to feel good, right? And that a regular doctor would be like, you are super hyper thyroid there, you know, but that’s actually you know, where she feels best and that is treating the person and not

Ricky Brandon 49:30
treating the lab. I have clients who change their thyroid medicine depending on the season. Like in the wintertime, I need this much. In the summertime. I need this much. Hi.

Christine Garvin 49:41
I didn’t even think about that. Right. They’re in charge.

Ricky Brandon 49:45
They’re in charge. Not me. Yeah. They’re like I just have learned over the years that in the summertime I need a little less than I need in the wintertime.

Christine Garvin 49:54
Yeah, yeah. I’m so glad you guys do thyroid stuff too, because you know not every place will be sort of comprehensive. Like they’ll just focus on sex hormones and that kind of thing.

Ricky Brandon 50:04
Yeah. And and we there’s tons of places that are popping up just doing hormones, right? They go to a weekend seminar or a three day seminar on on pellets or whatever. I want to finish that conversation about the way the delivery but yes. But viral on fibroid, they’re mostly screening with TSH only, which is thyroid stimulating hormone, which is the hormone that says, Make thyroid, right, yeah, that triggers thyroid. So if that’s within range, they don’t test anything else, you need to have the T four and the T three tested, T four, you can think of that as like your storage container, that when it hits the liver, it converts to T three, and T three, regulates your metabolism gives you energy and all of that stuff, right. So if their thyroids out of whack, they usually put them on Synthroid or levothyroxine, right? It’s only T four, right? You might have a problem converting T four to T three,

Christine Garvin 51:09
which has been for so many of my clients, that’s the issue.

Ricky Brandon 51:13
And so you need T three, because your body, something’s wrong, and it’s not converting the T four to T three. So then you ask your doctor, why are you putting them on this? I’ve had these conversations with Doctor, why are you putting them? You know, they, they, they go in for their checkup? And they call this office and why are you putting them on this? They’re on way too much there. You know, why did you take them off their level thyroxin or whatever. So you know that that they’re having their T three numbers are low. They’re having trouble converting T four to T three, you have them on a medicine that’s only T four. It’s not helping them? Yep. Yeah, they go, What do you mean, they don’t know. I go call the pharmacy. Call the pharmacist and ask them. Is there any T three in that? Yeah.

Christine Garvin 51:59
It’s I know, it’s crazy. I mean, I’m so glad that this discussion around thyroid hormone is happening more and more because that’s really Synthroid has been the thing for years for so many women. And they’re like, I just, they maybe had an initial hit where they felt a little bit better when they first started it, you know, but then that levels off pretty quickly and they feel horrible. And they’re like, I’m on medication. I don’t know if it’s working. Yeah, of course, it’s not converting to that, you know, T three and, and to have that basic understanding that that is the actual hormone, the active hormone, you know, T four is just so

Ricky Brandon 52:37
here’s what we would do, right, we would start you on your thyroid, and in the morning, and you might call in after a while and say or come to your next appointment. So I’m still filling my 3pm slump. Hmm, great. Let’s split it up. Let’s take it part of it in the morning. And then take another part in the afternoon, half hour before you eat your lunch. Oh, that did it. Or we need to raise you a little bit. Right. You know, and we do check for Hashimotos. Also, you know, it’s funny, and we had one lady Hashimotos. Right. You don’t want any kind of inflammatory response because it’s an autoimmune disease. Like you need to stop eating gluten. Oh, yeah. But I’m not gluten intolerant. Right. You need to stop eating bread. I don’t feel sick. You know? Yeah. Look, then you have to educate, right? This is why Yeah, he’s doing great. It was really hard for her the first three months. She’s no, great. Her husband reports back to me and says, You’ve changed our lives.

Christine Garvin 53:42
No. Yeah. I mean, the thyroid. That’s, that’s so so important for your basic energy, right. I mean, we talked about iron earlier, but really, thyroid it’s just that’s such a huge problem across the board, especially as women age you know, I see it all the time on testing.

Ricky Brandon 53:59
So sorry, I got all sidetracked. That’s okay. So yeah, we got we got capsules made in a compounding pharmacy. You know, there’s, there’s they are made by a pharmacist, right. So, technically, they’re synthetic. Right? But they’re bio identical. So anything made in a lab is going to be synthetic. So you know, you kind of get stuck in this well, it’s synthetic or it’s bio identical or they’re all synthetic because they’re made in a lab.

Christine Garvin 54:28
It’s the same Nicole makeup as our own

Ricky Brandon 54:31
same chemical makeup as your Hmm So needs to be bio identical. I love compounding pharmacies, they make your dose just for you. Once you balance out, we can you know maybe we’re giving it to you small and you end up taking two progesterone or or we’ll make a smaller one and a bigger one. And you know, people say well, when do I can I cycle my progesterone Can I go off of it? And I said, yeah, just go off of it and the times you want to be susceptible to breast cancer.

Christine Garvin 55:02
There you go.

Ricky Brandon 55:06
For men, testosterone, we’ll do an injection. We can do creams. I haven’t seen creams get them up as high and it. For men, the cream tends to convert to estrogen more often and more often. So for men, I put them on injection for women cream, they need a little bit even if they’re really struggling with, with, with getting aroused, I’ll even say, you know, wherever that spot is for you rub the testosterone there, huh? kind of wakes it up. Yeah, right there. Yeah, absolutely. wakes it up. Now, it’s still gonna go throughout the whole body and be right. As estradiol or estrogen will use cream?

Christine Garvin 55:53
And do you do straight Astra dial? Or do you do a combination?

Ricky Brandon 55:58
We’ll do we’ll do both. I let the practitioners kind of decide that decide that, you know, the benefit is in both? And I? I not, I’m smart. But I’m not smart enough to know what that decision deciding factor is. So Gotcha. And of when they choose to do that or not do it. But I see both. I see both coming through and I don’t like the pellets.

Christine Garvin 56:25
I was gonna I was gonna ask you how your how you felt about pellets? Yeah,

Ricky Brandon 56:29
I don’t like them. Again, those pellets, they inject them in you. And they stay not only because they’re not educating people. But they come in like three sizes, right? Think of going shopping for a shirt? Small, medium, large. I need an XL, or I need an extra small. I’m sorry, we don’t have an extra small. Just take the small one. Okay, so that’s the first thing you don’t have as much power over the dose. So you’re now just treating to get some hormones in there, not your magic amount. Like we said that. Sometimes you need more than the average person. So they may come in these ranges I have seen I have had women come into our clinic who are suddenly having hormone acne are raging. Yeah. And they go what do I do? Yeah, well, you wait three months and come back and see me? Yeah. So that’s why I don’t like them. Yeah. Just because you can’t adjust them. Like I said, sometimes you need a little more, sometimes you need a little less, you know, and you get to be in charge of that. And we’re going to tell you the range that’s safe for you. And, you know, you should be educated enough by the time you leave here to go like, Okay, I got too much thyroid, my, my heart is pounding a little too much, I’m gonna back that down. And, you know, I’m too sleepy in the morning or, or whatever. testosterones tricky. It’s a slow mover. You gotta be on it a while, you know, like men and women, women also you don’t feel it right away. It’s not like you use it and all of a sudden is it you know, takes you a month, sometimes two months, you start feeling that mental clarity and drive come back three months, you start feeling it in your muscles. You know, the difference is you work out. And you used to feel like this good, tired, where your muscles are fatigued. And but you’re and you’re probably low in testosterone, if now you work out and you just like, exhausted Yeah, I’m just I can’t even get up off the couch. You know, you want that good, tired, where you feel your muscles are tired, not you? Yep, absolutely want to have drive to do a hobby. You want to, you know, you want to feel like doing stuff that you used to do. And you used to love to do.

Christine Garvin 58:51
Yeah, and, and that’s, I’m glad we’re talking about testosterone for women, too, because I think that I mean, if you go to a pellet center, that’s the only thing they’re gonna focus on. It seems like you go elsewhere. You know, it’s, it’s the estrogen and progesterone, which are just as important, but that T is going to have a massive impact, like you just said, just on your overall sense of energy and well being you know, and so if you’re missing out on that, it’s you got to have a mom,

Ricky Brandon 59:20
that’s the one that’s gonna kick in with the other hormones to help your osteoporosis you’re gonna write your heart health, all of that is yes. And so we’re also we’re not just doing we’re test your DHEA, your cortisol, your thyroid will test for Hashimotos, progesterone, estrogen, estrogen, progesterone, estradiol and all all of it the whole ball of wax right? Some special cases have weird things going on, and we’ll dive a little more into food sensitivities or something like that. But, but for the most part, that first panel gives you a really good picture and helps most people.

Christine Garvin 59:58
Yeah, yeah. Well This is I mean, I could ask you about, there’s about 10 Other questions that I would love to know we’re coming on time here. So let’s talk I took over on your question. Oh, no, it’s great. It was all fantastic information, but let people know how they can contact you.

Ricky Brandon 1:00:14
The biggest thing I want them to know is whoever you go see, you need the, they need to have the heart of a teacher. And they need to teach you what’s going on. And you can tell, I’m giving this to you now. Trust yourself, you know, when someone is just marketing to you, because you’re in a dire need. And you’re just ready to write a check, or swipe your card just to get rid of this, whatever it is, and you’re just so happy that someone’s listening to you. And you know, when that’s the case, right, and that’s why people buy pallets, they buy whatever, just easy, I don’t have to think about it go in, put this thing in me, I’m gonna be fixed. So our website, I’m going to give you two websites. I don’t mean to confuse you I’ve got I’ve got a book I recently wrote it’s do your hormones, have you dragon Sagen and niagen.

Christine Garvin 1:01:03
Ah, so good. And

Ricky Brandon 1:01:07
it’s, it’s great, you’ll you’ll find out if hormones are right for you on here, we just I just tell tons of stories about real case scenarios that have happened in our clinic, I mean, give it to you for free, you just go to free hormone book.com.

Christine Garvin 1:01:21
Oh, wow. And very, very wonderful of you to offer.

Ricky Brandon 1:01:26
It’s got an audiobook too. So if you hate to read, you can download it. Now. I recorded it myself, I didn’t go into professional studio. So if you if you hate my voice, don’t download the audio, made it through the podcast, and you’re okay, hearing me tell the stories. And so you’ll get the digital copy of this, you’ll get the audiobook of this. There’s also a link on there where you can take a free online test, it’ll kind of tell you just based on your symptoms where you might be high or low. And, and also, I haven’t added the link yet, but Okay, so I’ll say go to free hormone book.com, download the book, all you got to do is put your email address, and I’ll email you the link to download the book. So free hormone book.com. If you go to my website, our business website at hormone balance centers, okay, with an S on the end, and it’s balance, not balanced. hormone balance centers.com. There’s a link along the top says free consultation. If you’ll click that, you’ll go to my calendar, you can pick a pick a half hour time slot, and we’ll talk Oh, that’s great. And so those are the two things go to hormone balance centers.com, look along the top menu for the free consultation and go to free hormone book.com. And you get the book and the audiobook and all that. Look, I’m on the same mission as you. I do want you to come to my clinic because I think I’ll take the best care of you. And we can help people all across the nation. But I also want you to go to someone find someone, there’s nothing like going face to face with someone who can just talk with you. And you can feel connected with someone locally. So I don’t care if you go to my clinic or someone else’s, but grab the book get educated. So you know the right questions to ask. You know what they should be testing? I don’t want you. I don’t want you sitting on the couch wanting a drink of water and you can’t even get up off the couch. I want you don’t have to live that way. Yeah, I want you living in high optimal. Yeah, no more low normal for you. You don’t have to be that way. You don’t have to be scared of it. You won’t be scared of it. Because the the education when it comes to you will ring true to you.

Christine Garvin 1:03:41
Yes. Yes. So good. And honestly, I’m so happy to connect with you. Because I do have clients all the time or other women that are reaching out to me, how can I find a doctor who knows hormones? You know, because like you said earlier? So many of these, especially smaller towns in the United States don’t have any app, you know, they don’t have access to a doctor that does and even some of the larger cities. So it’s fantastic that you guys can work with people national. Thank you

Ricky Brandon 1:04:11
so much. Oh, helpful. Yeah. So yeah, keep spreading the word. Not live a terrible life. live a great life.

Christine Garvin 1:04:19
Yep. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time today and all your wonderful knowledge and wisdom. It’s been fantastic chatting with you. And we’ll definitely have all the links in the show notes too. So people can just click on those and go directly to the websites and definitely 100% and grab the book. I mean, that’s a fantastic resource that you’re offering.

Ricky Brandon 1:04:38
Thank you so much. It was really fun. Absolutely.

Christine Garvin 1:04:41
All right, you guys I will see you next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai